An interview with Thadoss of Dune (part two)

In the second part of this interview we will focus on TAEDIUM VITAE, the latest Dune demo on Falcon that was released at the winter edition of SillyVenture 2025. This time I have also invited Jade (gfx) and Virgill (music) to join Thadoss (code) as they were essential parts in the making of that great demo.

I have to add that Virgill thought that his fellows had done a great job answering this interview and that he did not see what could be added. Too bad but his decision is respected.

STS: First of all, why “Taedium Vitae”? There seems to be different meanings to these ominous words and latin has never been my thing so that some explanations are more than welcome.

Thadoss: I like to find original names for my productions that fit the atmosphere. For example, TERE RA’I, which means "journey" in Tahitian, or 4musiK, a musical production in 4K.

Taedium Vitae wasn’t called that right away. At first, it was just called NEXTDEMO.PRG (the next demo, you know lol). It was also called DEMONIAK, but that didn’t fit the atmosphere. I always wanted to give this demo a very special atmosphere, based on a dystopian, dark world.

It was while searching for Latin phrases that I came across this name somewhat by chance, and I immediately felt that it was exactly what the demo needed. Later, the title of the demo and its meaning slightly redirected the final design, introducing concepts like the passage of time, melancholy, and emptiness. I was inspired by the following definition:

“A permanent state of weariness, lack of appetite, with no observable cause, in lucid individuals leading a social and professional life considered normal”.

Jade: I must admit, when Thadoss approached me with the demo and I read the title, I had to look up what it meant in detail. Because I don't know any Latin, even though it's the origin of many languages. ;) Thadoss explained to me at the beginning what atmosphere the demo was supposed to convey. Nevertheless, I wanted to know what the title meant and then use it as a reference for the graphic design. Especially when it came to logos, etc.

STS: when did the project start and how did the three of you come to work together? We all know you from fame and seeing such great names work together for the first time was a great surprise!

Thadoss: This project started more than 5 years ago. I first worked alone on the effects and a draft of the demo for about 3 years. At the beginning of 2024, I contacted MIC/DUNE to ask if he wanted to participate in the graphics, but he was already working on other projects. He suggested I contact JADE/DUNE.
I must say I was a bit intimidated. I’m a fan of JADE’s graphics and had never dared to contact him before. MIC helped us get in touch, and we quickly hit it off. Jade was thrilled to participate in this project and to create graphics for DUNE again.

I made it clear that I wanted to make a demo with a heavy, oppressive theme, set in a dystopian world. He liked the idea and enjoyed my early raw effects. I had created all the graphics in my own way, using GIMP and images found online that I edited, to show the result I wanted to achieve. Within a few days, he had already defined a style and overall atmosphere, with incredible color palettes. This guy is truly talented.

For the music, I initially wanted to work with Wieczor (Lamers/Mystic Bytes). We did some tests, but we couldn’t work together.

I wanted to present the demo at Sillyventure 2K24, but it didn’t have any music, so I couldn’t finish polishing it as I wanted. I decided to postpone the release by a year.

Jade then suggested working with Virgill, whom he knew. We exchanged ideas, and Virgill was immediately enthusiastic about the project. I don’t think he expected to have to produce 10 minutes of music, otherwise he probably wouldn’t have accepted LOL.

He worked directly from the final demo and composed the music in three stages. Each part was done in one go; there was no need to retouch or modify anything, everything was perfect the first time. This guy is truly talented.

Finally, I spent most of 2025 finalizing the details, rewriting code to optimize it, working on transitions between effects, and synchronizing everything with the music. The additional year allowed me to bring the soul of this demo to life.
I organized the development of the demo and mobilized the team until the end, but everyone was free to do what they wanted or suggest ideas and changes. I always wanted this to be our demo, all three of us, even though I arrived with a project that was already well advanced.

Jade: I remember MIC/DUNE contacting me in September 2024. He told me that Thadoss was working on a new Falcon demo and asked if I had time to create a logo and make some design tweaks. Of course, it was a no-brainer that I would help Thadoss with his demo, because I wanted to work on a Dune demo again myself, since my activity at Dune as a member was only short-lived until my demo scene inactivity. In addition, if I remember correctly, I hadn't worked with Thadoss before, but I was already familiar with his great work.

At that point, the extent of the project was not yet known. Thadoss contacted me and gave me a detailed overview of the demo and its mood. It was then clear to me that this was more than just a logo and a few design tweaks. ;)

STS: can you tell us more about the making of the demo, each of you from your technical point of view? Were there special requirements? How did you work together? I know for instance that Virgill is a famous AMIGA musician who started working on ATARI not so long ago, so why take part in a full demo? Jade is of course known for his many pixel contributions but why work with Dune again?

Thadoss: The demo was developed entirely through online exchanges. We worked using the HATARI emulator. The entire demo was developed on it, which allowed JADE and VIRGILL to see the effects as they were developed and during the final polishing.

I develop and compile the effects on a PC and test the result with Hatari (the integrated debugger is a non-intrusive marvel). This gave me a lot of work to finalize the demo on the actual machine (the effects worked, but I had to rework a lot of timings to stay in sync with the music).

One of the most complicated problems to manage was the music and memory management. Since I monopolize the DSP for graphic effects, I can’t use a soundtracker or compressed sounds, like MP2 or others, without losing a maximum of CPU cycles. So, I chose to play the music in RAW format directly with the Falcon’s DMA. This has the advantage of not consuming CPU, but the disadvantage of taking up a lot of memory.

I set up a system with two 2 MB buffers in memory, in which I alternately load the next sample to be played by the DMA. During the demo’s polishing phase, I had to manage loading the music slices between effects, in addition to the graphics.
Anecdotally, I hid the loading of a 2 MB slice of music in the middle of the subway sequence, split into small 100 KB loads to avoid slowing down the effect too much.
Regarding development, I often work in two parts:

First, I code the effect in 68030 assembly to see what it looks like. Once the code works, I convert it to the DSP and finish by optimizing the final code in the DSP.
For example, the first version of the voxel lava landscape ran at 2 frames per second on the 68030. I spent several months just to reach 12.5 frames per second.

I had to redo some effects several times to gain VBLs or to add transitions. The 3D tunnel was initially coded in true color. I recoded it in 8 planes (256 colors) to add a fade-out at the end. Switching to planar mode later allowed me to add the smoke effect on the edges of the tunnel.

The effect I spent the most time on is the subway, for which I rewrote the sprite display routines several times. I find the result incredible for a standard Falcon, with many objects on the floor, ceiling, and walls. Some views are close to Cyberpunk 2077. This is really the atmosphere I dreamed of producing.

Jade: When I saw the first version of the demo, I realized the extent of the scope. Thadoss basically already had a finished demo, as he had already created graphics for all the effects. Now the plan was to gradually replace his graphics, even though that wasn't the original intention. Originally, I had been asked for a logo and a few design tweaks. :)

Even though I spent almost every evening working on the demo since we first got in touch, the whole process was a bit tedious, especially when I had to replace graphics. To be honest, I don't like waiting to get a demo update. Who does? ;)
But with Thadoss, it was completely different, because he was also actively working on the demo every evening and he was able to send me binary updates quickly.

Later on, however, we reached the point where I only had to replace a lot of things. Since the files were all open and a new build of the demo was not necessary. Only when the effects had been significantly changed was a new build necessary. Graphical updates were first converted to their format using Python scripts and the files were replaced. This made the whole process a little faster and I didn't have to bother Thadoss. It was a slightly different approach than the one I use with EVIL/DHS when I work with him. In this sense, honorable greetings to Evil.

However, the discussion about graphical changes and effects became more and more intense and extensive at some point. And my only thought was that we should organize everything better, if only to keep track of everything. As mentioned before, everything was discussed via email.

So at some point, I suggested that we move the entire development and discussion to Discord. I told Thadoss how we did it for the Pico-8 demo “The Mind” by Haujobb and Sweet16. And that this process had been very helpful in facilitating creative exchange and not completely losing track of things.
I then created a new room for the demo and categories per sequence on our existing Sweet16 Discord server. This proved to be very helpful in the end, especially when some sequences with creative input were not touched for a few weeks/months.
Here is an overview of how it all looked.

The final graphics were created in Photoshop, Aseprite, and Grafx2. I used Pinterest as my main platform for inspiration and mood boards, but also various AI engines for creative input. Even though this is a demo for the Falcon, you don't have to work like you did in the 90s. ;) All the tools currently available were used for the graphic design.

The Dune logo and the Taedium Vitae logo were developed and created 100% in Aseprite. Larger backgrounds were developed in Photoshop as classic matte paintings, which were then converted to a palette at the end. Because each sequence had its limits, and in order to still be fast and flexible, most of it was created in Photoshop.

The growing tree in “The Fall Tree” sequence is an animation that was animated frame by frame in Aseprite.

Various effect textures were created in both Photoshop and Aseprite.
Now you may be wondering, what is Grafx2 for? Grafx2 was mainly used for palette improvement or approval.

The challenge of creating the graphics for the demo was manageable. The only challenge you face every time is the amount of personal free time you have available and working against you. You're not a teenager anymore, when free time was still available in abundance. :)

Because I have often read comments that the Metro part of the demo is a bit out of the graphical framework, I would like to say something about this. The Metro part is actually a part of the demo that still consists of 99% of the template graphics that Thadoss used to develop it. The plan was actually for me to replace all the graphic elements or at least change the color palette. Unfortunately, due to time constraints, I was unable to do this before the release. We started, but then the whole thing was unfortunately left unfinished. And postponing the demo for another year until the next Silly Venture Winter Edition would not have been acceptable. So if we're talking about challenges, that would have been the biggest one.

To answer the last question, why work with Dune again? Why not? I was never an inactive member of the group and I was never kicked out, so I was and still am a Dune member since my general inactivity in the demoscene.

STS: the demo holds a very special message while not quite optimistic. To be honest I love the demo and enjoy watching videos of it again and again but my question is: what message did you want to carry with this prod? Was it Thadoss’ choice or was it a mutual agreement?

Thadoss: Yes, it’s true. Initially, I wanted to make a demo with a dystopian, heavy atmosphere. Over time, I explored other themes, notably the void and nothingness towards the end. There isn’t a specific message in this demo, rather an evoked, suggested atmosphere. Everyone watches the demo in their own way and interprets it with their personality, experiences, and feelings.

Jade and Virgill followed me in the demo’s atmosphere and trusted me. I thank them again for that. I am really very happy with the final result.

Jade: When Thadoss showed me the demo, my first thought was: What a great demo—it captures a certain mood of our time without naming it specifically.
Without addressing current political or economic issues, each person associates their own thoughts and feelings with it. That's exactly what makes it so powerful to me: it affects everyone differently.

Even though the demo isn't consistently optimistic, it encourages you to become aware of your own position and still look ahead.

And yes! Thadoss is to blame. :) Just kidding! It was Thadoss' vision from the very beginning. I never doubted that we should change anything here, except for the look and feel of the demo, which was also his wish. Despite everything, a lot of love and energy was put into the demo because many effects were remade and meaningful transitions were thought out, which of course also had to work technically within the limits.

STS: Now I am not sure you are aware of what you have achieved but in my eyes, and not only mine, your demo has reached a new level, call it TBL or whatever but this has already become a milestone in the ATARI demoscene! What are your thoughts about it?

Thadoss: I am very proud of the result. I always give the best of me to reach perfection. This has been a 5 year long project, a demo born from passion. I love quality work and both Jade and Virgill share the feeling in their work. This is the best motivation you can have to bring the best you can do.

I am happy I managed to get skilled people like Jade or Virgill involved in the project, it can only mean top quality but this brings also more pression on me (no way I code something “almost done” work needs to be polished to the nail).
I think there are not enough demos for bare Falcon and I am very happy I brought a new stone to the wall and showed what the computer is up to.

Jade: The biggest praise here goes to Thadoss. But I am grateful to have been part of this and to have worked on something that will leave a milestone in the Atari demoscene. Personally, I was not aware of the significance of what we might be creating here.

Personally, I like to work on demos that don't remind us too much of the golden age, which is definitely not the case with this demo. To be honest, we have more than enough of those. Even though I enjoy working on classic intros/demos, I still want my work to look more modern in the end. Nowadays, it's just more about design, color mood, color code, and other things you can put into demos. Of course, this isn't as easy on old computers as it is on modern platforms like PCs.

STS: looping back to part 1 that was only dedicated to Thadoss, here comes the moment when you can write whatever you want to, so feel free to use this space to express your feelings and opinions.

Thadoss: I'll let Jade and Virgill answer here; I’ve already answered.

Jade: I would like to introduce myself again, who I actually am and how I got into the Atari demoscene. I'm sure there's no information about that.
Hello everyone. My name is Kay Poprawe and I am 49 years old. I come from Germany and live in the Ruhr area. I work as a Senior General 3D/VFX Artist in the advertising industry. My first contact with computers was the Atari 800XE that my father owned when I was 8 years old. I was allowed to use it from time to time to play games. I quickly became more interested in what you could do with it and started typing listings from magazines for Atari Basic, and then modifying the code. At that point, I hadn't thought about creating graphics because I didn't really have the means to do so. I've always enjoyed drawing and painting, but it took a while before I placed my first pixel. At some point, my father bought an Atari ST, and I was able to discover a lot there as well. I played around with Omikron Basic and GFA Basic and, of course, played my first games there too. My fascination with pixel graphics and the programs available for it came from games like Speedball, Xenon, etc. My passion for cool pixel graphics was greatly influenced by the Bitmap Brothers at the time. My first demo group was “Animal Mine,” which I was a part of for several years and already had my own Atari ST. Most people know me by the name Shadowmaster. And I have to be honest, I don't remember why I called myself that back then. Animal Mine was better known for its compact disc series than for its demos. But at some point, I wanted to make more demos than just logos and fonts for compact discs. So I switched to Dune. I was the only German in a French demo group, and I'm still a member to this day. At least I was never officially kicked out. That is, until I left the demoscene at the end of 1995. I continued to do things for the demoscene, but more under my pseudonym Madness/Oxyron. An Amiga group from the far north of Germany. But that wasn't to last long. In 2019, the fire caught me again and I returned to the demoscene. You could say Facebook was responsible for that, because I was back in touch with old friends from the demoscene. Since then, many people have known me again under the name Jade.

I'm glad to be back. I'm proud to have been involved in great projects like Taedium Vitae, and I hope we can all continue to enjoy and participate in the fascinating world of the Atari demoscene. In good times and bad. Because for all of us, this era will come to an end at some point. I hope and wish that the Atari demoscene will continue to exist long after we are gone.

And that's it my friends. I don't really have anything else to say except Stay Atari!

STS: thank you so much for spending time writing replies to these questions and ABOVE ALL for bringing us a demo that will be remembered for long likewise Sonoluminiscenz or Hmm…

Thadoss :Thanks to you and to all ATARI fans who keep doing things to feed our passion. Stay (H)atari !

Jade: Thank you for inviting us to the interview and allowing us to share our demo development! I am very grateful for that!

Get the demo from Demozoo or Pouet

Watch a video of the demo and a timelapse of the making of the logo